From rmg3@access2.digex.net Sun Mar  5 19:06:44 EST 1995
Article: 97706 of talk.origins
Path: news3.digex.net!digex.net!not-for-mail
From: rmg3@access2.digex.net (Robert Grumbine)
Newsgroups: talk.origins
Subject: Why rivers fail, again
Date: 5 Mar 1995 19:05:28 -0500
Organization: Under construction
Lines: 51
Message-ID: <3jdjk8$381@access2.digex.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: access2.digex.net

  One of the standard creationist arguments is that the earth can't be
more than X years old because the rivers deliver element Y at a rate that
would give the present concentration of that element in that time.  
(9000 years and nickel are favorites).

  A standard science response is: "But if you look at other elements the
ages you get range from 55 to several million years.  Obviously this isn't
a reliable way to get an estimate for the age of the earth."

  That's fine as far as it goes (I've used it).  But it lacks some punch.
How about instead:
  The stuff in the rivers isn't the same as the stuff in the ocean.  Therefore
such a calculation is nonsense right off.

  This is actually a corollary to the first (more detailed) argument,
but I think is stronger in that it is simpler.  The source for me is:
  Chamberlin, T. C.  An attempt to frame a working hypothesis of the 
cause of glacial periods on an atomspheric basis  J. Geology, 7, 
545-584, 1899.

Composition of sea salts: (p. 572)
Sodium Chloride    77.758%
Magnesium Chloride 10.878%
Magnesium sulphate  4.737%
Calcium sulphate    3.600%
Potassium sulphate  2.465%
Calcium carbonate   0.345%
Magnesium bromide   0.217%

Composition of river waters: (p. 572)
Calcium Carbonate  50 %
Calcium Sulphate   20%
Magnesium carbonate 4
Magnesium sulphate  4
Sodium chloride     4
Silica              7
(K, Na)(SO4, CO3)   6  (Potassium and sodium carbonates and sulphates)
Other               5


  So the river is pouring in chalk (Calcium Carbonate) and Gypsum
(Calcium Sulphate) while the ocean is table salt with some Epsom salts
(? Magnesium salts).  Much more straightforward (?) than residence time
arguments.


-- 
Bob Grumbine rmg3@access.digex.net
Sagredo (Galileo Galilei) "You present these recondite matters with too much 
evidence and ease; this great facility makes them less appreciated than they 
would be had they been presented in a more abstruse manner." Two New Sciences